Anwar Ibrahim is arguably one of South-East Asia's most celebrated jailbirds. Before his unexpected release last September, he had spent five years locked away in a Malaysian prison after being found guilty of corruption and sodomy. But the most astounding thing about all this is that at the time he was sacked and tried, he was his country's deputy prime minister and being widely touted to succeed his mentor, Dr Mahathir Mohamad, as Malaysia's next leader. Many observers, of course, still believe that Anwar was set up by the vocally anti-Western Mahathir. About 18 months ago, this program aired claims alleging links between Anwar and international Muslim organisations suspected of funding terrorism. George Negus recently caught up with him via satellite from the UK and put those allegations to him.
GEORGE NEGUS: Anwar Ibrahim thanks for joining us on Dateline. Can I put to you allegations that were put to air on this program in relation to yourself to give you an opportunity to reply to them. In 2003 we alleged on this program that the International Institute of Islamic Thought - of which you are a director or were you director? Is that true?ANWAR IBRAHIM, FORMER MALAYSIAN DEPUTY PM: Yes. GEORGE NEGUS: You still are a director of the IIIT, as it were? ANWAR IBRAHIM: I'm still very closely involved because - although in the last six years when I was in prison I was unable to contribute or participate in the activities. But the allegations must be substantiated. The IIIT, as you call it, together with the Muslim-Christian Understanding at the Georgetown University was set up initially to promote a better understanding of Islam in the West. GEORGE NEGUS: You deny emphatically that there are any links between that organisation and terrorist organisations? ANWAR IBRAHIM: The allegation was malicious, certainly dictated by some business interests or personal vendetta or even ideological bias. I cannot ascertain. But certainly I have advised them to take appropriate legal action. GEORGE NEGUS: But you do deny there was any link between that institute... ANWAR IBRAHIM: Of course, I clearly deny this and call upon authorities to investigate and prove their case. This is a very dangerous trend. All Muslims are suspects. And this sort of bias or prejudice should not be tolerated. GEORGE NEGUS: So what about the World Assembly for Muslim Youth of which you are a trustee - am I right? ANWAR IBRAHIM: No, I was involved as an Asia-Pacific representative about 15, 20 years ago. This was an organisation set up in Riyadh, in Saudi Arabia, back then by the Saudi authorities and I have found no evidence - in fact there were activities even in Australia, in Malaysia, Indonesia and the Far East, essentially to promote a moderate understanding of Islam. What is disgusting to my mind is after 9/11 all Islamic activities, though clearly in their policies against any extremists or fanatical or certainly against those who perpetuate any semblance of violence, they are all roped in. GEORGE NEGUS: So you don't have any association with that assembly now and you don't believe it has any links with terrorism? ANWAR IBRAHIM: I was involved at the time. I defend its programs and activities and it has no links - not only no links, we were clearly - we were clear in our resolve against any extremist trends. I'm not involved now, but I don't believe they were involved in any links, unless they can substantiate the allegations or provide evidence to the effect. GEORGE NEGUS: You are now seeing yourself possibly acting in the role as a mediator between Islam and the West. What kind of Muslim would you describe yourself as - as a nominal Muslim, a moderate Muslim, a fundamentalist Muslim, a progressive Muslim or an extremist Muslim? What kind of Muslim is Anwar Ibrahim? ANWAR IBRAHIM: Well, there are moderate Muslims who are prone to corruption and repressive in their actions. There are reasonable Muslims who are part and parcel of the entire extremist network. So I intend to just promote an understanding of Islam as what I believe Islam stands for. It does not matter how I am being described. Certainly the normal distribution attributed to me has been a moderate face of Islam and I have no objection to that. GEORGE NEGUS: Fair enough so how would you react then - could you ever find yourself condoning or sympathising with terrorism in any form or suicide bombings, for instance? ANWAR IBRAHIM: My position is emphatic. In fact, I have been criticising Muslim leaders and scholars for their muted stance against terrorist activities. The Muslims must take a position - a bold, pronounced position - against not only the perpetrators of violence but purveyors of the ideology of violence. GEORGE NEGUS: Could you agree with some even moderate Muslims who believe that the United States is carrying out a war against Islam. ANWAR IBRAHIM: Well, I don't believe the US is waging a war against Islam. But I think the Administration must be humble enough to accept the fact that some of their pronouncements, some of their actions, have led to this perception and this needs to be corrected. GEORGE NEGUS: You can't re-enter Malaysian politics until 2008 unless you're pardoned or your sentence is quashed, your charges are quashed. What are you going to do with your time? Are you going to be a full-time mediator? Are you going to attempt to create the dialogue that you talk about between the West and Islam? ANWAR IBRAHIM: I'm not presumptuous in my role. I'm not claiming myself to be a mediator, but certainly I have been engaging actively with the West, with those in the Administration in the United States or my friends in academia, in organisations both Muslims and Christians and Jews, and I think much more needs to be done in this direction. But so far as Malaysian politics is concerned, I will return. I have the authority of - the Government have used the courts to bar me from being active. Notwithstanding that, I will remain a very active player in Malaysian politics. GEORGE NEGUS: What do you think will happen if you do try to re-enter Malaysian politics? Could it become a test of Abdullah Badawi's reign as leader of your country that he does allow you to take part in Malaysian politics? ANWAR IBRAHIM: Yes, he has been in office for the last 1.5 years and I have thanked him precisely for his not interfering in the work of the judiciary, although it is just a beginning. You know, the judiciary in Malaysia is still under the thumbs of the executive. There's no decision that can be made independently. We consider them lame ducks using the paraphernalia of office and the sophistication of due process, which means that a lot needs to be done. Similarly with the issue of corruption, it is still a major problem in Malaysia and nothing has been done. Look at the media. I can, of course, have an interview with you. But no way can we have any access to the print or electronic media in Malaysia. GEORGE NEGUS: You're sounding very much like a politician, as you always were, and have been even in jail. What do you think... ANWAR IBRAHIM: George, these are fundamental issues for a modern civilised state. GEORGE NEGUS: But if you've become a threat to Badawi in the same way you became a threat, it would appear, to Dr Mahathir, couldn't you find yourself in exactly the same position, ironically, that you did six years ago? ANWAR IBRAHIM: Well, I don't have a choice. GEORGE NEGUS: Anwar Ibrahim, you went into jail almost six years ago as a politician. You've clearly come out of jail still very much a politician. Thank you for talking to us. ANWAR IBRAHIM: Thank you George. GEORGE NEGUS: Anwar Ibrahim – In Australia later this week, by the way, as a keynote speaker at an international conference on the war on terrorism versus human rights - as we speak, one of the most contentious issues around. | 
